[C38] Symetrical Spinnakers

Joseph Launie jlaunie at cox.net
Mon Aug 6 22:38:43 EDT 2012


thanks - I think you just went past my grade level Joe
On 8/6/2012 11:29 AM, les wrote:
> Hi, guys and gals,
> 	Just wanted to add an old Navy guy's input...
>
> 	The PL259 connectors are two parts, the screw down shell, and the
> casing with the insulator and center conductor.  Remove the shell and
> slide it down the coax.  I sometimes use a bit of tape or tie a string
> around the coax to make sure it keeps out of the way of my soldering.
> Measure the coax back about 3/4" and cut away the insulation and braid
> and then remove the insulation from the center conductor.  Remove about
> 1/2" of the outer insulation, leaving the braid intact.  Carefully
> thread the braid into the connector and make sure the center conductor
> protrudes from the center pin of the connector.  Check to see that you
> can see the braid inside the holes of the outer portion of the
> connector.  Solder the center conductor.  Carefully solder the shield
> (the braid) in each of the holes.  They are spaced so that all the wires
> in the braid will be held by solder.
>
> 	Make sure the joint is shiny.  A dull look to the solder means it is
> not well done and will probably have flux still embedded in the solder.
> But be careful not to overheat the coax, as the neoprene will swell and
> change dimension if too hot.  Buy a couple of extra connectors and a
> foot or two of coax and practice first before tackling the good stuff if
> this is your first attempt.  Use a soldering iron on the center cable,
> about 25 or 30 watts.  You can use a soldering gun if you are careful on
> the insulation.
>
> 	After soldering, clean the connector very well. In the past you could
> use alcohol, but some fluxes today will not dissolve in alcohol, so read
> the solder and check the manufacturers spec for cleaning.
>
> 	If you do not use the connection right away, clean it again before
> installation.  This second cleaning can be alcohol.
>
> 	Install the connector.  If using a barrel connector, install both
> cables, Use a bit of silicon to seal the area where the insulation meets
> the connector.  Using self sealing tape, start about 1-2" up the cable
> from the connector, and wrap smoothly stretching the wrap as you go.
> The stretch breaks microcapsuls in the tape and causes the self healing
> attachment of the sealing tape.  Wrap to 1-2" beyond the second
> connector on the second coax.  A connection made this way will last up
> to 5 years in tropical conditions.  Longer in the US.
>
> 	Sealing the cable is mandatory if it is to work well at radar
> frequencies.  The cable is typically air insulated, using a sort of
> neoprene tube with a spiral of neoprene around the wire to support it in
> the tube to improve its characteristics.  If it is not sealed moisture
> will get in and reduce the range of the radar to next to nothing.
>
> 	This is not rocket science, but attention to detail will provide the
> best results.
>
> Regards,
> Les H
>
> On Fri, 2012-08-03 at 16:05 -0400, tdtron at earthlink.net wrote:
>> Hello Joe,
>>   
>> You don't have to spice the coax.  Depending on the type of coax,
>> there are couplers and barrel connectors to match. For instance, on
>> RG58 or similar coax cables, you put a PL259 on each side of the cut
>> and then connect both connectors to a female barrel connector which
>> may be a SO238.  I am working on memory here but any ham radio store
>> should be able to help you if you identify the coax.
>>   
>> Installing solder type PL259 connectors is a pain but don't be tempted
>> to use the solderless type, they invite trouble on boats.
>>   
>> They should also offer sealing putty also to wrap the connection for a
>> water tight connection.  Even a well wrapped connection using quality
>> electrical tape will work.  I often use WD40 on the actual connectors
>> before I connect them and then clean the outsides for a good bond with
>> either the putty or tape.
>>   
>> This is more difficult than a conventional splice but using these
>> connectors allows easy removal in the future if needed and also keeps
>> the inductance of the cable uniform for best conductivity and minimum
>> loss at the high frequencies of radar.
>>   
>> Tom Troncalli
>>   
>>
>>   
>>          ----- Original Message -----
>>          From: Joseph Launie
>>          To: listserve at catalina38.org
>>          Sent: 8/3/2012 3:23:01 PM
>>          Subject: Re: [C38] Symetrical Spinnakers
>>          
>>          
>>          Tom,
>>              Thank you - I like the idea of shimming to a smaller
>>          diameter aluminium post since mine is stainless. It would be
>>          very difficult to unthread the co-ax so I wonder if I can cut
>>          and splice it - voids waranty but that is long gone anyway.
>>          Joe
>>          On 8/3/2012 7:18 AM, tdtron at earthlink.net wrote:
>>          
>>          > Hello Joe,
>>          >
>>          > What is the Inside diameter 6' post?  If you can find out
>>          > that dimension and locate a piece of similar material but
>>          > smaller with an outside diameter of the inside diameter of
>>          > the standing 6' post, you could easily telescope the two
>>          > pieces together making the post mount any height you want.
>>          >
>>          > As you know, the strains are less higher up the post vs. the
>>          > lower section so you will not lose any strength by using a
>>          > smaller diameter post extension and your wind resistance
>>          > will be less also than a uniform diameter post to the new
>>          > height.
>>          >
>>          > I have made similar projects and finding exact size tubes
>>          > that have telescoping dimension properties is often
>>          > difficult but the radio industry has sources for telescoping
>>          > materials.  If your existing post does not have a
>>          > corresponding smaller post material that is compatible, you
>>          > can shim the smaller post with something like plastic tape
>>          > (not duct tape) to take out the dimensional differences if
>>          > they are small.  I have also used the shim method to
>>          > transition from steel to aluminum with good results since
>>          > the materials are isolated by the dielectric qualities of
>>          > the plastic tape.  Any ham radio outlet should be able
>>          > to give you resources to find the materials you need to make
>>          > a post extension.  This is a regular problem with building
>>          > radio antennas and towers.
>>          >
>>          > If this procedure of using an inside post to modify the
>>          > height of your existing post will work for you, you may be
>>          > able to leave the existing post mounted to your boat which
>>          > will save a lot of time.
>>          >
>>          > I wish you were closer to me so I could help you with this
>>          > project.  I have a fairly complete weld shop and machine
>>          > shop so that I can still practice my abilities of being a
>>          > technical blue collar nerd wannabe.
>>          >
>>          > Good luck,
>>          > Tom Troncalli
>>          >
>>          >
>>          >
>>          >
>>          >
>>          > ----- Original Message -----
>>          >         From: Joseph Launie
>>          >         To: listserve at catalina38.org
>>          >         Sent: 8/3/2012 3:01:36 AM
>>          >         Subject: Re: [C38] Symetrical Spinnakers
>>          >
>>          >
>>          >         Steve,
>>          >             Thanks - now how do I go from a 6 foot post to a
>>          >         10 foot one? I have lots of xtra cable. I guess I
>>          >         have to discard this one and build the ten foot out
>>          >         of aluminum. It would be way easier if I could cut
>>          >         the co-ax. Joe
>>          >         On 8/2/2012 10:22 PM, Steve Smolinske wrote:
>>          >
>>          >         > Joe,
>>          >         >
>>          >         > When I did my post I did the calculations so that
>>          >         > the bowman assuming he is six feet tall would be
>>          >         > missed by the beam, our post is 10 tall and
>>          >         > mounted so the base is where the fuel line vent
>>          >         > use to be.   If I remember correctly the angle off
>>          >         > the the radome for the beam is 2-2.5 degrees
>>          >         >
>>          >         > Steve
>>          >         >
>>          >         > From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org
>>          >         > [mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On
>>          >         > Behalf Of Joseph Launie
>>          >         > Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 10:14 AM
>>          >         > To: listserve at catalina38.org
>>          >         > Subject: Re: [C38] Symetrical Spinnakers
>>          >         >
>>          >         >
>>          >         > we have another rigging issue.We let the idiot
>>          >         > "rigger" for the local J boat dealer install our
>>          >         > radar. He put it on a post 6 feet above the deck.
>>          >         > We are afraid to use it for fear of radiation
>>          >         > damage. Any thoughts? Joe
>>          >         >
>>          >         > On 7/31/2012 9:39 AM, William Knowles wrote:
>>          >         >
>>          >         >
>>          >         >         Jay are you using the external spin block
>>          >         >         or an internal one say your spare jib
>>          >         >         haylard, that could be a problem.
>>          >         >
>>          >         >
>>          >         >         Bill
>>          >         >
>>          >         >         On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 11:24 AM, Donald
>>          >         >         Strong <drstrong at ucdavis.edu> wrote:
>>          >         >
>>          >         >
>>          >         >         Jay: I feel for you man. We have had lots
>>          >         >         of spinny drama. We always roller furl the
>>          >         >         jib when flying
>>          >         >         spinnaker. The rest of your questions are
>>          >         >         beyond my experience.
>>          >         >         Don
>>          >         >
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         > ------_=_NextPart_002_01CD6EB3.1776DEB4
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>>          >         >         >       charset="us-ascii"
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>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         > Hello All,
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         > We flew our 0.75 oz spinnaker for the
>>          >         >         first time yesterday during a
>>          >         >         > family sail and have a couple of
>>          >         >         questions for the group.
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         > 1.                   During the douse
>>          >         >         the spin halyard got stuck and
>>          >         >         > appeared to be caught on the roller
>>          >         >         furling gear near the masthead.  Is
>>          >         >         > this common?  Also, is it normal to
>>          >         >         roller furl the jib when using a
>>          >         >         > symmetrical chute or do you really need
>>          >         >         to drop it on deck?  I race on a
>>          >         >         > Serendipity 43 and Swan 51 with a deck
>>          >         >         sweeper jibs that are dropped
>>          >         >         > when flying a chute, and on a J-105 that
>>          >         >         rolls the jib while flying an
>>          >         >         > asymmetrical, so having a roller furler
>>          >         >         and a symmetrical chute is new
>>          >         >         > to us.
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         > 2.                   While working to
>>          >         >         get the chute down we added a few
>>          >         >         > new tears to the many that were there
>>          >         >         previously so was going to put out
>>          >         >         > a call to anyone who might have a used
>>          >         >         symmetrical spinnaker(s)
>>          >         >         > (0.5-0.75oz) laying around that they are
>>          >         >         not using.  Will pay a
>>          >         >         > reasonable price plus shipping!
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         > 3.                   And lastly, does
>>          >         >         anyone who uses very light
>>          >         >         > spinnaker sheets in light air have a
>>          >         >         preference for light weight
>>          >         >         > shackles.  The plastic Lewmar ones we
>>          >         >         use on the Serendipity tend to
>>          >         >         > open up under load and I thought one of
>>          >         >         you may have a preferable
>>          >         >         > option?? &n! bsp;Or maybe we'll just tie
>>          >         >         on light line!
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         > Thanks much!
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         > Jay & Dorothy Sorensen
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         > C-38 #311 Broad Reach
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         > San Diego, CA
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         >
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>>          >         >         > <div class=Section1>
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         > <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2
>>          >         >         face=Arial><span
>>          >         >         > style='font-size:10.0pt;
>>          >         >         > font-family:Arial'>Hello
>>          >         >         All,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         > <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2
>>          >         >         face=Arial><span
>>          >         >         > style='font-size:10.0pt;
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         > <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2
>>          >         >         face=Arial><span
>>          >         >         > style='font-size:10.0pt;
>>          >         >         > font-family:Arial'>We flew our 0.75 oz
>>          >         >         spinnaker for the first time
>>          >         >         > yesterday
>>          >         >         > during a family sail and have a couple
>>          >         >         of questions for the
>>          >         >         > group.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         > <p c! lass=MsoNormal><font size=2
>>          >         >         face=Arial><span
>>          >         >         > style='font-size:10.0pt;
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         > <p class=MsoNormal
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         style='margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.5in;mso-list:l0 level1
>>          >         >         > lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><font
>>          >         >         > size=2 face=Arial><span
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><span
>>          >         >         > style='mso-list:Ignore'>1.<font size=1
>>          >         >         face="Times New Roman"><span
>>          >         >         > style='font:7.0pt "Times New
>>          >         >         > Roman"'>
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         </span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font
>>          >         >         > size=2 face=Arial><span
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>During the douse the spin
>>          >         >         > halyard
>>          >         >         > got stuck and appeared to be caught on
>>          >         >         the roller furling gear near the
>>          >         >         > masthead.  Is this common?  Also, is it
>>          >         >         normal to roller furl
>>          >         >         > the jib
>>          >         >         > when using a symmetrical chute or do you
>>          >         >         really need to drop it on deck?
>>          >         >         >  I
>>          >         >         > race on a Serendipity 43 and Swan 51
>>          >         >         with a deck sweeper jibs that are
>>          >         >         > dropped
>>          >         >         > when flying a chute, and on a J-105 that
>>          >         >         rolls the jib while flying an
>>          >         >         > asymmetrical, so having a roller furler
>>          >         >         and a symmetrical chute is new to
>>          >         >         > us.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         > <p class=MsoNormal
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         style='margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.5in;mso-list:l0 level1
>>          >         >         > lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><font
>>          >         >         > size=2 face=Arial><span
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><span
>>          >         >         > style='mso-list:Ignore'>2.<font size=1
>>          >         >         face="Times New Roman"><span
>>          >         >         > style='font:7.0pt "Times New
>>          >         >         > Roman"'>                  !
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         </span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font
>>          >         >         > size=2 face=Arial><span
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>While working to get the chute
>>          >         >         > down
>>          >         >         > we added a few new tears to the many
>>          >         >         that were there previously so was
>>          >         >         > going to
>>          >         >         > put out a call to anyone who might have
>>          >         >         a used symmetrical spinnaker(s)
>>          >         >         > (0.5-0.75oz) laying around that they are
>>          >         >         not using.  Will pay a
>>          >         >         > reasonable
>>          >         >         > price plus
>>          >         >         shipping!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         > <p class=MsoNormal
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         style='margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.5in;mso-list:l0 level1
>>          >         >         > lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><font
>>          >         >         > size=2 face=Arial><span
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><span
>>          >         >         > style='mso-list:Ignore'>3.<font size=1
>>          >         >         face="Times New Roman"><span
>>          >         >         > style='font:7.0pt "Times New
>>          >         >         > Roman"'>
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         </span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font
>>          >         >         > size=2 face=Arial><span
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>And lastly, does anyone who
>>          >         >         > uses
>>          >         >         > very light spinnaker sheets in light air
>>          >         >         have a preference for light
>>          >         >         > weight
>>          >         >         > shackles.  The plastic Lewmar ones we
>>          >         >         use on the Serendipity tend to
>>          >         >         > open
>>          >         >         > up under load and I thought one of you
>>          >         >         may have a preferable
>>          >         >         > option??  Or
>>          >         >         > maybe well just tie on light
>>          >         >         > line!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         > <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2
>>          >         >         face=Arial><span
>>          >         >         > style='font-size:10.0pt;
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         > <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2
>>          >         >         face=Arial><span
>>          >         >         > style='font-size! :10.0pt;
>>          >         >         > font-family:Arial'>Thanks
>>          >         >         > much!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         > <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2
>>          >         >         face=Arial><span
>>          >         >         > style='font-size:10.0pt;
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         > <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2
>>          >         >         face=Arial><span
>>          >         >         > style='font-size:10.0pt;
>>          >         >         > font-family:Arial'>Jay & Dorothy
>>          >         >         > Sorensen<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         > <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2
>>          >         >         face=Arial><span
>>          >         >         > style='font-size:10.0pt;
>>          >         >         > font-family:Arial'>C-38 #311 Broad
>>          >         >         > Reach<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         > <p class=MsoNormal><st1:place
>>          >         >         w:st="on"><st1:City
>>          >         >         > w:st="on"><font size=2
>>          >         >         >   face=Arial><span
>>          >         >         style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>San
>>          >         >         > Diego</span></font></st1:City><font
>>          >         >         >  size=2 face=Arial><span
>>          >         >         style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>,
>>          >         >         > <st1:State
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         w:st="on">CA</st1:State></span></font></st1:place><o:p></o:p></p>
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         > <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3
>>          >         >         face="Times New Roman"><span
>>          >         >         > style='font-size:
>>          >         >         > 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
>>          >         >         >
>>          >         >         > </div>
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