[C38] between dinette seat and holding tank
S Orton
ssorton at hotmail.com
Thu Jul 18 15:34:18 EDT 2013
We have an excellent discussion going on, but the archive thread (subject title) is horrible! The subject needs to be broken up between mast wiring and mast truing. A few years from now this discussion will be lost. Anders, can you relabel this? Ray I also have Spartite installed and I centered the mast per Steve S procedure before installing the Spartite. I agree to remove the Spartite with the mast installed would be very difficult- you would need to pull the mast to properly remove the epoxy, Spartite. My advice now would to check the mast head center on the boat per Steve S's procedure. If OK, great, but do not true the mast head by bending the mast port to starboard. In a good blow, you may need the extra mast strength.Cheers, Steve O
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2013 14:00:00 -0700
From: SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com
To: listserve at catalina38.org
Subject: Re: [C38] between dinette seat and holding tank
Ray, no I do not, it already has the partners and they haven’t fallen out so I haven’t worried about it. Without centering the masthead Im not sure what the effect is on the overall system, Steve From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org [mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of Ray Torok
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 1:47 PM
To: Catalina 38 Listserve
Subject: Re: [C38] between dinette seat and holding tank Steve, In your procedure, it seems the mast must be free to move at the partners, at least when you start. At some point do you put wedges or something in at the partners? My mast has Spartite at the partners, which I understand is a bear to remove. I decided not to try to remove it, so I didn't even try to center the masthead as a first step. I just unloaded all the shrouds, then loaded the uppers evenly by counting turns on the turnbuckles, and then used the intermediates and lowers to keep the mast in column. Do you see any problems doing it that way? Thanks, Ray On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 11:23 PM, Steve Smolinske <SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com> wrote:Phil, Yes those were taken after centering and tuning, headstay tension would still be off. Steve From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org [mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of Phil Gay
Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 10:26 PM
To: 'Catalina 38 Listserve'
Subject: Re: [C38] between dinette seat and holding tank Steve, Are the tension measurements in the excel file for the shrouds with the back stay off? Phil GayC38 049 Que LindaEverett WA From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org [mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of Steve Smolinske
Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 11:08 PM
To: Catalina 38 Listserve
Subject: Re: [C38] between dinette seat and holding tank With regards to tuning the rig, I am in process of writing an article for future publication, but the nuts and bolts of it since the discussion came up this week: 1) Loosen all shrouds with the exception of the head stay
2) Put a tape at the bow then measure back even with the mast and put a mark on the rail, use the same measurement on the other side.
3) Run a sail slug with messenger up the main sail track attach to it a tape measure,
4) Measure the distance from the top of the mast to each of the marks you made in step 2
5) Tighten the uppers on each side until you get the mast head centered, measure and remeasure to the marks you made.
6) Now begin tightening the lowers, sight up the mast from the base, from the stern from the dock until you get the center column straight with the top
a. If one side bows out loosen it rather than tightening the opposing side.7) Once you are happy with the alignment recheck to make sure the mast head is still on center. Keep tweaking until all is perfect.
8) Begin tightening the shrouds using an equal number of turns on each side port and starboard, remeasure and sight for alignment and centering.
9) Once the rig is snug and aligned I had a rigger tighten to the the proper settings, then I bought a Louse gauge and measured the tension (file attached)
10) Tension the forward and aft lowers
For the backstay adjustment remember that the reading on the clylinder is not the wire tension, the manufacturer of your backstay adjuster should have a table that converts cylinder reading to wire tension. I tension my rig at the maximum setting to 3300-3500 lbs, that is a reading of something like 1600 on my cylinder. I attached a batten to the cylinder marked its location and then taped it in place, I then tensioned the rig to 2200 and put a piece of tape, and then again at 3300 (Red piece of tape) for reference when adjusting the backstay. The royces article states something like normal sailing at 2200 and heavy winds at 3300-3500 lbs. I can tell you at 3500 the mast does bend and it is noticeable from a distance, nothing like a carbon mast but you will see the pre bend. Its actually pretty easy to do yourself, takes some time but well worth the effort. StevePeregrine #312Seattle From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org [mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of torok13731 at gmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 8:07 PM
To: Catalina 38 Listserve; Catalina 38 Listserve
Subject: Re: [C38] between dinette seat and holding tank Hi Tom, Very cool. You are miles ahead of me. I’d like to see photos of your mast step repair. I’m afraid it’s only a matter of time before that and the mast rewiring projects make it to the top of my list. Thanks much,Ray Sent from Windows Mail From: Tom T.Sent: June 25, 2013 6:49 PM
To: Catalina 38 Listserve
Subject: Re: [C38] between dinette seat and holding tank Hello Ray,
Believe it or not, my boat had the wiring from the mast going from the bilge to the nav station between the inner and outer hulls at a place below the forward edge of the nav station. There was no way to see this route and to use a steel fish tape would be dangerous unless you disconnect the battery bank and disconnect from shore power since you will be coming up the starboard hull if you feed from the bilge. I had to run several wires over the years and pushing a fish tape from the bilge allowed me to reach the back side of the electrical panel area with very little problem. I even had a closed circuit tv camera on the masthead so I could see forward on a small tv from the nav station. This was really nice at anchor at Egmont Key at the entrance of Tampa Bay when we anchored overnight. With the TV we could look over the island to see the sunset which was hidden by palm trees. The camera would also show fish, boat traffic or trash in the water from the nav station. The reason I mentioned this is I had the coax from the mast routed via the route discussed above and with the talk on the forum about re-wiring masts, this was one of my mast wiring projects. I got the little color CCTV camera for about $30 at Harbor Freight Tools and instead of using their 120v transformer, I picked up the vessel's 12v in the forward settee where the terminal strip to the mast was located. I just ran an additional service wire from the nav station electrical panel via the route above.
I put an air conditioner under the nav station and fed the condensate hose via this route also so the condensate would feed to the bilge. The condensate hose was larger than the wires but all went the same route.
I have picture of the mast step modification/repair and also my air conditioner if you or anyone else is interested.
Tom Troncalli
Ex-owner 1981 #95On 6/25/2013 12:57 PM, Ray Torok wrote:Thanks Tom. That's good info. My boat has lots of wires in the bilge, anchored to the underside of the cabin sole on one side. Sounds like they did it differently in the newer boats. How does your mast wiring get back to the nav station? Thanks, Ray Torok On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 6:16 PM, Tom T. <tdtron at earthlink.net> wrote:Between cabin sole below the mast and the keel is a piece of timber. Mine became soft and I had to cut out the sole to remove the soft wood. I replaced the wood with laid up fiberglass in a mold I formed in the bilge. This was a very difficult project but it allowed me to glass in a couple of electrical PVC wide angles for my lightning ground cables which I attached to the inside of the mast before it was re-installed. I also attached another ground cable to the aluminum mast base while the mast was out making it a conductor to the forward keel bolt which is almost impossible to get to except with this procedure. I ended up with three 1/2" ground cables, two going along either side of the bilge, connected to the keel bolts, and terminating at the engine block. The third cable was from the mast base to the front keel bolt.
I kept my mast wiring going out through the port side hole in the lower mast by the forward settee but you could use this technique to use an electrical PVC elbow to carry the mast wiring but then you would have the wiring in the bilge instead up high and dry like Catalina did it.
I have sent a nylon messenger down from the top of the mast with a small fishing weight and was able to snag it with a piece of mechanics wire once the line was down. I had no problem snagging the messenger through that little hole in the mast. I did it with the mast wires still in the hole too.
There are several places where wood was used on the Catalina 38 where other materials would have been better, the mast step is one of them.
Tom Troncalli
On 6/24/2013 7:14 PM, Ray Torok wrote:The idea was to look at cutting the cabin sole (not the mast) to get better access to the bottom of the mast and the step. I'm not sure how much it would help. The idea of additional holes in the mast is another question. On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 3:55 PM, Donald Strong <drstrong at ucdavis.edu> wrote:Don't hole that mast!
On 6/24/13 3:39 PM, Ray Torok wrote:Argh! Isn't this why they invented saber saws? On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 3:35 PM, littlebreeze at comcast.net <littlebreeze at comcast.net> wrote:Shit
Sent from the San Francisco Bay, home of the 2013 Catalina 38 Nationals. ----- Reply message -----
From: "Max Soto" <maxsoto at gmail.com>
To: "Catalina 38 Listserve" <listserve at catalina38.org>
Subject: [C38] Wiring the MastDate: Mon, Jun 24, 2013 15:17 Exactly, in that tiny space between the holding tank and the fiberglass..
Max Soto +506-8312-1367Alajuela, Costa Rica
On 24/06/2013, at 16:07, "littlebreeze at comcast.net" <littlebreeze at comcast.net> wrote:So to clarify, most are using the existing hole(s) on the dinette side of the mast. I mean in that tiny space between the mast and the holding tank. No one is adding a hole on the companion way side of the mast, for access, and then putting a cover over the hole after the wires are run?
Kerry
Sent from the San Francisco Bay, home of the 2013 Catalina 38 Nationals. ----- Reply message -----
From: "Steve Smolinske" <SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com>
To: "Catalina 38 Listserve" <listserve at catalina38.org>
Subject: [C38] Wiring the Mast
Date: Mon, Jun 24, 2013 13:53 That should work if there is enough room in the conduit and the wires are not wrapped all around each other, if you try make sure to really tape the messenger and the wires together very good. From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org [mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of littlebreeze at comcast.net
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 12:37 PM
To: Catalina 38 Listserve
Subject: Re: [C38] Wiring the Mast No I didn't. I'm learning more and more as I go along. But I'm wondering if I can use one of the existing wires as a messenger?
Kerry
Sent from the San Francisco Bay, home of the 2013 Catalina 38 Nationals. ----- Reply message -----
From: "Steve Smolinske" <SSmolinske at rainierrubber.com>
To: "Catalina 38 Listserve" <listserve at catalina38.org>
Subject: [C38] Wiring the Mast
Date: Mon, Jun 24, 2013 09:11 Kerry, did they leave a messenger in your conduit when they rewired the mast? From: listserve-bounces at catalina38.org [mailto:listserve-bounces at catalina38.org] On Behalf Of littlebreeze at comcast.net
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 9:43 AM
To: Catalina 38 Listserve
Subject: Re: [C38] Wiring the Mast If it was 30 year old wiring in the mast I wouldn't even ask the question. The mast wiring is only six years old and was changed when the mast was pulled for painting. But its still a valid answer.
Kerry
Sent from the San Francisco Bay, home of the 2013 Catalina 38 Nationals. ----- Reply message -----
From: "cat38skip" <cat38skip at yahoo.com>
To: <listserve at catalina38.org>
Subject: [C38] Wiring the Mast
Date: Mon, Jun 17, 2013 06:06
Kerry,We re-wired the entire mast, in place, last year, New masthead light and wires new steaming/deck light and wire, new VHF cable and antenna and re-strung the masthead wind transducer. We have a 1 1/2 inch hole near the bottom of the mast at cabin sole level. It was easy :-) . That is, after the hard, frustrating hours and days of mistakes & re-re-re-pulling of the tangled wires and messenger strings. Once we sorted out the best messenger to use (weed eater 'string') it was a matter of having someone up top who was comfortable being there AND who knew what he was doing, 2-way communication and staging the sequence and materials. We replaced all the bulbs with LED's so the wire guage was reduced significantly. We used multi-wire cable to reduce tangles. The PO had installed all primary wire and it was a mess. Give me a call or we can get together ..Do you have someone to go uo there for you? Dave
Sent from South San Francisco, where the wind never stops.
littlebreeze at comcast.net wrote:Happy Fathers Day to the group.
I was thinking of installing a wind speed indicator at the top of the mast. However when I looked into accessing the existing wiring and PVC conduit, it looks to be an impossible task without pulling the mast. Has anyone overcome this issue without pulling the mast? The only way I can come up with is to cut a 3.5 inch hole in the starboard side of the mast approximately 6" from the bottom of the mast, and then, after making the appropriate connections, affix a cover plate to the access hole. Will this weaken the mast beyond use? Should I just pull the mast?
Kerry Grimes
Little Breeze 139
San Francisco No virus found in this message.
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