[C38] Listserve Digest, Vol 10, Issue 77
Linda Farabee
lindafarabee at gmail.com
Sat Jun 7 21:39:08 EDT 2014
From Linda
On Jun 7, 2014, at 3:42 PM, listserve-request at catalina38.org wrote:
> Send Listserve mailing list submissions to
> listserve at catalina38.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> listserve-request at catalina38.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> listserve-owner at catalina38.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Listserve digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Electrical Problem (Tom T.)
> 2. Re: Electrical Problem (Michael de lisle)
> 3. Re: Electrical Problem (Steven Ribble)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2014 14:41:38 -0400
> From: "Tom T." <tdtron at earthlink.net>
> To: Catalina 38 Listserve <listserve at catalina38.org>
> Subject: Re: [C38] Electrical Problem
> Message-ID: <53935CE2.5010306 at earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
>
> Hello Rich,
>
> I think you may have already answered your own question about possible
> problems with the harness going to the engine control panel. The
> original wiring system was dangerous when the boats were new and only
> get more dangerous with time. Eventually the harness can fail causing
> possible dire consequences.
>
> Not only are the plugs on the original harness prone to failure but the
> long length of wire going from the alternator to the panel and then back
> to the batteries causes a voltage drop which greatly reduces the
> vessel's ability to recharge the batteries. Owners have been known to
> pay for expensive alternator upgrades which only magnify the fire
> hazard. A new harness will be like having a larger alternator without
> the expense and also without the extra load on the engine. There have
> been reports of alternator mount failure with larger alternators adding
> to the dilemma.
>
> You do NOT need a whole new engine panel harness. You only need to
> bypass the heavy current lead from the alternator to the panel. Use a
> heavy inline fuse at both the alternator end and the battery end and use
> heavy marine grade wire to make a new alternator lead. Marine grade wire
> was not used in the past because it was rare and expensive but marine
> grade wire is tinned so it is more corrosion resistant and easier to solder.
>
> Since you will not be having a large current going to the panel any
> longer, you can still use the existing wires if you want to for running
> a volt meter which has almost no load so it will not be fire hazard or
> cause failure from corrosion arcing at the connectors. It may be a good
> idea to make a whole new harness but the main thing is to get the
> charging circuit out of that harness in any case. Even if you make a
> new panel harness, the charging circuit will no longer be part of it.
>
> A volt meter is one additional advantage of the harness upgrade.If you
> replace the amp meter with a volt meter, make sure it is a marine unit.
> The automotive units will look and work good for a short time before
> they fail due to the salt corrosion of marine use. As a side note, if a
> volt meter does fail, it will not kill the charging circuit like an amp
> meter will so by changing to a volt meter you will also increase
> reliability and safety there also.
>
> The difference in the wiring connection of the volt meter as compared to
> the amp meter is that the amp meter was a series fed meter going back to
> the batteries while the return leg on the volt meter just goes to the
> panel ground which is adequate since there is very little current
> through a volt meter.
>
> I wrote a Mainsheet article some years ago detailing the harness upgrade
> but I can't remember what year or month. Maybe another member with
> website access can direct you to the article if it is archived. In a
> nutshell, the main accomplishments of a new harness are:
>
> 1, Shorter and less resistive charging lead from the alternator to
> the batteries for more efficient charging.
> 2. Elimination of failure prone harness connectors.
> 3. No phantom electrical loses from corrosion in the connectors or
> amp meter.
> 4. A volt meter installed in the engine panel in place of the
> original amp meter. A volt meter will give you better information of
> your electrical system. For instance, if you had a battery with a
> broken and shorted cell plate, an amp meter would possibly still show a
> good charge rate while a volt meter would show you had low voltage
> caused from a problem that needed attention. Often an amp meter will
> give a false sense of security..
>
> Good luck,
> Tom Troncalli
> Former owner of #95 and now in lurker status
> 770-356-2223
>
>
>
>
>
> On 6/7/2014 7:38 AM, fleet2001 at aol.com wrote:
>> Guys,
>> I need some electrical advice. My boat "Merriconeag" hull# 138 has
>> about a
>> 2amp drain in the engine compartment. I think I should replace the
>> trailer type
>> harness with a bus bar. Also, possibly replacing the ammeter with a
>> volt meter.
>> I have to switch the engine battery switch to off when I shut the
>> engine off or
>> the battery will drain power. Help.
>> Thanks
>> Rich Grassia
>> fleet2001 at aol.com <mailto:fleet2001 at aol.com>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Listserve mailing list
>> Listserve at catalina38.org
>> http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>> Version: 2014.0.4592 / Virus Database: 3955/7635 - Release Date: 06/06/14
>>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <http://catalina38.org/pipermail/listserve_catalina38.org/attachments/20140607/0e87c33f/attachment-0001.html>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2014 12:14:45 -0700
> From: Michael de lisle <krazymiked at gmail.com>
> To: Catalina 38 Listserve <listserve at catalina38.org>
> Subject: Re: [C38] Electrical Problem
> Message-ID:
> <CAG_tRoSf5XVtxKhw=5WORkUxc7zYqAG8Hd5RM6OSe0bKuC6-zA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Tom and Rich, thank you for posting all this great info! I just started
> having issues with my electrical and this is going to help immensely.
> On Jun 7, 2014 11:41 AM, "Tom T." <tdtron at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Hello Rich,
>>
>> I think you may have already answered your own question about possible
>> problems with the harness going to the engine control panel. The original
>> wiring system was dangerous when the boats were new and only get more
>> dangerous with time. Eventually the harness can fail causing possible dire
>> consequences.
>>
>> Not only are the plugs on the original harness prone to failure but the
>> long length of wire going from the alternator to the panel and then back to
>> the batteries causes a voltage drop which greatly reduces the vessel's
>> ability to recharge the batteries. Owners have been known to pay for
>> expensive alternator upgrades which only magnify the fire hazard. A new
>> harness will be like having a larger alternator without the expense and
>> also without the extra load on the engine. There have been reports of
>> alternator mount failure with larger alternators adding to the dilemma.
>>
>> You do NOT need a whole new engine panel harness. You only need to
>> bypass the heavy current lead from the alternator to the panel. Use a
>> heavy inline fuse at both the alternator end and the battery end and use
>> heavy marine grade wire to make a new alternator lead. Marine grade wire
>> was not used in the past because it was rare and expensive but marine grade
>> wire is tinned so it is more corrosion resistant and easier to solder.
>>
>> Since you will not be having a large current going to the panel any
>> longer, you can still use the existing wires if you want to for running a
>> volt meter which has almost no load so it will not be fire hazard or cause
>> failure from corrosion arcing at the connectors. It may be a good idea to
>> make a whole new harness but the main thing is to get the charging circuit
>> out of that harness in any case. Even if you make a new panel harness, the
>> charging circuit will no longer be part of it.
>>
>> A volt meter is one additional advantage of the harness upgrade.If you
>> replace the amp meter with a volt meter, make sure it is a marine unit.
>> The automotive units will look and work good for a short time before they
>> fail due to the salt corrosion of marine use. As a side note, if a volt
>> meter does fail, it will not kill the charging circuit like an amp meter
>> will so by changing to a volt meter you will also increase reliability and
>> safety there also.
>>
>> The difference in the wiring connection of the volt meter as compared to
>> the amp meter is that the amp meter was a series fed meter going back to
>> the batteries while the return leg on the volt meter just goes to the panel
>> ground which is adequate since there is very little current through a volt
>> meter.
>>
>> I wrote a Mainsheet article some years ago detailing the harness upgrade
>> but I can't remember what year or month. Maybe another member with website
>> access can direct you to the article if it is archived. In a nutshell,
>> the main accomplishments of a new harness are:
>>
>> 1, Shorter and less resistive charging lead from the alternator to the
>> batteries for more efficient charging.
>> 2. Elimination of failure prone harness connectors.
>> 3. No phantom electrical loses from corrosion in the connectors or amp
>> meter.
>> 4. A volt meter installed in the engine panel in place of the original
>> amp meter. A volt meter will give you better information of your
>> electrical system. For instance, if you had a battery with a broken and
>> shorted cell plate, an amp meter would possibly still show a good charge
>> rate while a volt meter would show you had low voltage caused from a
>> problem that needed attention. Often an amp meter will give a false sense
>> of security..
>>
>> Good luck,
>> Tom Troncalli
>> Former owner of #95 and now in lurker status
>> 770-356-2223
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6/7/2014 7:38 AM, fleet2001 at aol.com wrote:
>>
>> Guys,
>>
>> I need some electrical advice. My boat "Merriconeag" hull# 138 has about
>> a
>> 2amp drain in the engine compartment. I think I should replace the
>> trailer type
>> harness with a bus bar. Also, possibly replacing the ammeter with a volt
>> meter.
>> I have to switch the engine battery switch to off when I shut the engine
>> off or
>> the battery will drain power. Help.
>> Thanks
>>
>> Rich Grassia
>>
>> fleet2001 at aol.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Listserve mailing listListserve at catalina38.orghttp://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2014.0.4592 / Virus Database: 3955/7635 - Release Date: 06/06/14
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Listserve mailing list
>> Listserve at catalina38.org
>> http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>>
>>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <http://catalina38.org/pipermail/listserve_catalina38.org/attachments/20140607/25697c46/attachment-0001.html>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2014 18:42:01 -0400
> From: Steven Ribble <steve.ribble at gmail.com>
> To: Catalina 38 Listserve <listserve at catalina38.org>
> Subject: Re: [C38] Electrical Problem
> Message-ID:
> <CAKrT=PkkGVKkgc+zo1pLwf4CFf+2Na7t_hG-KZFKfdeyEDeKKg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I have to agree with Michael; Rich, thanks for using the listserv for
> asking the question and Tom for lurking ;).
>
> This is going to be my 2nd year on the hard and I'm Jonesing to sail, but
> since I'm out of the water I'm trying to do projects...and electrical is
> one of them. Thank you for continuing to provide insight, Tom.
>
> Steve, #64
> On Jun 7, 2014 3:14 PM, "Michael de lisle" <krazymiked at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Tom and Rich, thank you for posting all this great info! I just started
>> having issues with my electrical and this is going to help immensely.
>> On Jun 7, 2014 11:41 AM, "Tom T." <tdtron at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Rich,
>>>
>>> I think you may have already answered your own question about possible
>>> problems with the harness going to the engine control panel. The original
>>> wiring system was dangerous when the boats were new and only get more
>>> dangerous with time. Eventually the harness can fail causing possible dire
>>> consequences.
>>>
>>> Not only are the plugs on the original harness prone to failure but the
>>> long length of wire going from the alternator to the panel and then back to
>>> the batteries causes a voltage drop which greatly reduces the vessel's
>>> ability to recharge the batteries. Owners have been known to pay for
>>> expensive alternator upgrades which only magnify the fire hazard. A new
>>> harness will be like having a larger alternator without the expense and
>>> also without the extra load on the engine. There have been reports of
>>> alternator mount failure with larger alternators adding to the dilemma.
>>>
>>> You do NOT need a whole new engine panel harness. You only need to
>>> bypass the heavy current lead from the alternator to the panel. Use a
>>> heavy inline fuse at both the alternator end and the battery end and use
>>> heavy marine grade wire to make a new alternator lead. Marine grade wire
>>> was not used in the past because it was rare and expensive but marine grade
>>> wire is tinned so it is more corrosion resistant and easier to solder.
>>>
>>> Since you will not be having a large current going to the panel any
>>> longer, you can still use the existing wires if you want to for running a
>>> volt meter which has almost no load so it will not be fire hazard or cause
>>> failure from corrosion arcing at the connectors. It may be a good idea to
>>> make a whole new harness but the main thing is to get the charging circuit
>>> out of that harness in any case. Even if you make a new panel harness, the
>>> charging circuit will no longer be part of it.
>>>
>>> A volt meter is one additional advantage of the harness upgrade.If you
>>> replace the amp meter with a volt meter, make sure it is a marine unit.
>>> The automotive units will look and work good for a short time before they
>>> fail due to the salt corrosion of marine use. As a side note, if a volt
>>> meter does fail, it will not kill the charging circuit like an amp meter
>>> will so by changing to a volt meter you will also increase reliability and
>>> safety there also.
>>>
>>> The difference in the wiring connection of the volt meter as compared to
>>> the amp meter is that the amp meter was a series fed meter going back to
>>> the batteries while the return leg on the volt meter just goes to the panel
>>> ground which is adequate since there is very little current through a volt
>>> meter.
>>>
>>> I wrote a Mainsheet article some years ago detailing the harness upgrade
>>> but I can't remember what year or month. Maybe another member with website
>>> access can direct you to the article if it is archived. In a nutshell,
>>> the main accomplishments of a new harness are:
>>>
>>> 1, Shorter and less resistive charging lead from the alternator to the
>>> batteries for more efficient charging.
>>> 2. Elimination of failure prone harness connectors.
>>> 3. No phantom electrical loses from corrosion in the connectors or amp
>>> meter.
>>> 4. A volt meter installed in the engine panel in place of the original
>>> amp meter. A volt meter will give you better information of your
>>> electrical system. For instance, if you had a battery with a broken and
>>> shorted cell plate, an amp meter would possibly still show a good charge
>>> rate while a volt meter would show you had low voltage caused from a
>>> problem that needed attention. Often an amp meter will give a false sense
>>> of security..
>>>
>>> Good luck,
>>> Tom Troncalli
>>> Former owner of #95 and now in lurker status
>>> 770-356-2223
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6/7/2014 7:38 AM, fleet2001 at aol.com wrote:
>>>
>>> Guys,
>>>
>>> I need some electrical advice. My boat "Merriconeag" hull# 138 has about
>>> a
>>> 2amp drain in the engine compartment. I think I should replace the
>>> trailer type
>>> harness with a bus bar. Also, possibly replacing the ammeter with a volt
>>> meter.
>>> I have to switch the engine battery switch to off when I shut the engine
>>> off or
>>> the battery will drain power. Help.
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Rich Grassia
>>>
>>> fleet2001 at aol.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Listserve mailing listListserve at catalina38.orghttp://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus found in this message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 2014.0.4592 / Virus Database: 3955/7635 - Release Date: 06/06/14
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Listserve mailing list
>>> Listserve at catalina38.org
>>> http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Listserve mailing list
>> Listserve at catalina38.org
>> http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>>
>>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <http://catalina38.org/pipermail/listserve_catalina38.org/attachments/20140607/ec863588/attachment.html>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Listserve mailing list
> Listserve at catalina38.org
> http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Listserve Digest, Vol 10, Issue 77
> *****************************************
More information about the Listserve
mailing list