[C38] Listserve Digest, Vol 10, Issue 77
Linda Farabee
lindafarabee at gmail.com
Sat Jun 7 22:15:32 EDT 2014
Rich,
I replaced my engine control panel in 2003 with the recommended panel and wiring harness from Seaward products, the company that supplied the original products for Catalina. The panel comes with a terminal block connection and Seward recommends a terminal block for the engine end. Ask for the long wiring harness and you won't need the terminal block kit. With the long harness you can connect each wire,one at a time, from the new panel directly to the engine. Seawards recommendation with the terminal blocks means 3 pieces of wire for each run. Give Seaward your hull number and they will know what you have on your boat. I did have to order a new box to put the panel in from Catalina but it took so long for Catalina to supply the part that I made my own box. I still have the Catalina box if you want to go that route. Seaward advertises in Mainsheet magazine and can be reached at seawardproducts.com or 562 699 7997.
On Jun 7, 2014, at 3:42 PM, listserve-request at catalina38.org wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
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> 1. Re: Electrical Problem (Tom T.)
> 2. Re: Electrical Problem (Michael de lisle)
> 3. Re: Electrical Problem (Steven Ribble)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2014 14:41:38 -0400
> From: "Tom T." <tdtron at earthlink.net>
> To: Catalina 38 Listserve <listserve at catalina38.org>
> Subject: Re: [C38] Electrical Problem
> Message-ID: <53935CE2.5010306 at earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
>
> Hello Rich,
>
> I think you may have already answered your own question about possible
> problems with the harness going to the engine control panel. The
> original wiring system was dangerous when the boats were new and only
> get more dangerous with time. Eventually the harness can fail causing
> possible dire consequences.
>
> Not only are the plugs on the original harness prone to failure but the
> long length of wire going from the alternator to the panel and then back
> to the batteries causes a voltage drop which greatly reduces the
> vessel's ability to recharge the batteries. Owners have been known to
> pay for expensive alternator upgrades which only magnify the fire
> hazard. A new harness will be like having a larger alternator without
> the expense and also without the extra load on the engine. There have
> been reports of alternator mount failure with larger alternators adding
> to the dilemma.
>
> You do NOT need a whole new engine panel harness. You only need to
> bypass the heavy current lead from the alternator to the panel. Use a
> heavy inline fuse at both the alternator end and the battery end and use
> heavy marine grade wire to make a new alternator lead. Marine grade wire
> was not used in the past because it was rare and expensive but marine
> grade wire is tinned so it is more corrosion resistant and easier to solder.
>
> Since you will not be having a large current going to the panel any
> longer, you can still use the existing wires if you want to for running
> a volt meter which has almost no load so it will not be fire hazard or
> cause failure from corrosion arcing at the connectors. It may be a good
> idea to make a whole new harness but the main thing is to get the
> charging circuit out of that harness in any case. Even if you make a
> new panel harness, the charging circuit will no longer be part of it.
>
> A volt meter is one additional advantage of the harness upgrade.If you
> replace the amp meter with a volt meter, make sure it is a marine unit.
> The automotive units will look and work good for a short time before
> they fail due to the salt corrosion of marine use. As a side note, if a
> volt meter does fail, it will not kill the charging circuit like an amp
> meter will so by changing to a volt meter you will also increase
> reliability and safety there also.
>
> The difference in the wiring connection of the volt meter as compared to
> the amp meter is that the amp meter was a series fed meter going back to
> the batteries while the return leg on the volt meter just goes to the
> panel ground which is adequate since there is very little current
> through a volt meter.
>
> I wrote a Mainsheet article some years ago detailing the harness upgrade
> but I can't remember what year or month. Maybe another member with
> website access can direct you to the article if it is archived. In a
> nutshell, the main accomplishments of a new harness are:
>
> 1, Shorter and less resistive charging lead from the alternator to
> the batteries for more efficient charging.
> 2. Elimination of failure prone harness connectors.
> 3. No phantom electrical loses from corrosion in the connectors or
> amp meter.
> 4. A volt meter installed in the engine panel in place of the
> original amp meter. A volt meter will give you better information of
> your electrical system. For instance, if you had a battery with a
> broken and shorted cell plate, an amp meter would possibly still show a
> good charge rate while a volt meter would show you had low voltage
> caused from a problem that needed attention. Often an amp meter will
> give a false sense of security..
>
> Good luck,
> Tom Troncalli
> Former owner of #95 and now in lurker status
> 770-356-2223
>
>
>
>
>
> On 6/7/2014 7:38 AM, fleet2001 at aol.com wrote:
>> Guys,
>> I need some electrical advice. My boat "Merriconeag" hull# 138 has
>> about a
>> 2amp drain in the engine compartment. I think I should replace the
>> trailer type
>> harness with a bus bar. Also, possibly replacing the ammeter with a
>> volt meter.
>> I have to switch the engine battery switch to off when I shut the
>> engine off or
>> the battery will drain power. Help.
>> Thanks
>> Rich Grassia
>> fleet2001 at aol.com <mailto:fleet2001 at aol.com>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Listserve mailing list
>> Listserve at catalina38.org
>> http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>> Version: 2014.0.4592 / Virus Database: 3955/7635 - Release Date: 06/06/14
>>
>
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>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2014 12:14:45 -0700
> From: Michael de lisle <krazymiked at gmail.com>
> To: Catalina 38 Listserve <listserve at catalina38.org>
> Subject: Re: [C38] Electrical Problem
> Message-ID:
> <CAG_tRoSf5XVtxKhw=5WORkUxc7zYqAG8Hd5RM6OSe0bKuC6-zA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Tom and Rich, thank you for posting all this great info! I just started
> having issues with my electrical and this is going to help immensely.
> On Jun 7, 2014 11:41 AM, "Tom T." <tdtron at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Hello Rich,
>>
>> I think you may have already answered your own question about possible
>> problems with the harness going to the engine control panel. The original
>> wiring system was dangerous when the boats were new and only get more
>> dangerous with time. Eventually the harness can fail causing possible dire
>> consequences.
>>
>> Not only are the plugs on the original harness prone to failure but the
>> long length of wire going from the alternator to the panel and then back to
>> the batteries causes a voltage drop which greatly reduces the vessel's
>> ability to recharge the batteries. Owners have been known to pay for
>> expensive alternator upgrades which only magnify the fire hazard. A new
>> harness will be like having a larger alternator without the expense and
>> also without the extra load on the engine. There have been reports of
>> alternator mount failure with larger alternators adding to the dilemma.
>>
>> You do NOT need a whole new engine panel harness. You only need to
>> bypass the heavy current lead from the alternator to the panel. Use a
>> heavy inline fuse at both the alternator end and the battery end and use
>> heavy marine grade wire to make a new alternator lead. Marine grade wire
>> was not used in the past because it was rare and expensive but marine grade
>> wire is tinned so it is more corrosion resistant and easier to solder.
>>
>> Since you will not be having a large current going to the panel any
>> longer, you can still use the existing wires if you want to for running a
>> volt meter which has almost no load so it will not be fire hazard or cause
>> failure from corrosion arcing at the connectors. It may be a good idea to
>> make a whole new harness but the main thing is to get the charging circuit
>> out of that harness in any case. Even if you make a new panel harness, the
>> charging circuit will no longer be part of it.
>>
>> A volt meter is one additional advantage of the harness upgrade.If you
>> replace the amp meter with a volt meter, make sure it is a marine unit.
>> The automotive units will look and work good for a short time before they
>> fail due to the salt corrosion of marine use. As a side note, if a volt
>> meter does fail, it will not kill the charging circuit like an amp meter
>> will so by changing to a volt meter you will also increase reliability and
>> safety there also.
>>
>> The difference in the wiring connection of the volt meter as compared to
>> the amp meter is that the amp meter was a series fed meter going back to
>> the batteries while the return leg on the volt meter just goes to the panel
>> ground which is adequate since there is very little current through a volt
>> meter.
>>
>> I wrote a Mainsheet article some years ago detailing the harness upgrade
>> but I can't remember what year or month. Maybe another member with website
>> access can direct you to the article if it is archived. In a nutshell,
>> the main accomplishments of a new harness are:
>>
>> 1, Shorter and less resistive charging lead from the alternator to the
>> batteries for more efficient charging.
>> 2. Elimination of failure prone harness connectors.
>> 3. No phantom electrical loses from corrosion in the connectors or amp
>> meter.
>> 4. A volt meter installed in the engine panel in place of the original
>> amp meter. A volt meter will give you better information of your
>> electrical system. For instance, if you had a battery with a broken and
>> shorted cell plate, an amp meter would possibly still show a good charge
>> rate while a volt meter would show you had low voltage caused from a
>> problem that needed attention. Often an amp meter will give a false sense
>> of security..
>>
>> Good luck,
>> Tom Troncalli
>> Former owner of #95 and now in lurker status
>> 770-356-2223
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6/7/2014 7:38 AM, fleet2001 at aol.com wrote:
>>
>> Guys,
>>
>> I need some electrical advice. My boat "Merriconeag" hull# 138 has about
>> a
>> 2amp drain in the engine compartment. I think I should replace the
>> trailer type
>> harness with a bus bar. Also, possibly replacing the ammeter with a volt
>> meter.
>> I have to switch the engine battery switch to off when I shut the engine
>> off or
>> the battery will drain power. Help.
>> Thanks
>>
>> Rich Grassia
>>
>> fleet2001 at aol.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Listserve mailing listListserve at catalina38.orghttp://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2014.0.4592 / Virus Database: 3955/7635 - Release Date: 06/06/14
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Listserve mailing list
>> Listserve at catalina38.org
>> http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>>
>>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2014 18:42:01 -0400
> From: Steven Ribble <steve.ribble at gmail.com>
> To: Catalina 38 Listserve <listserve at catalina38.org>
> Subject: Re: [C38] Electrical Problem
> Message-ID:
> <CAKrT=PkkGVKkgc+zo1pLwf4CFf+2Na7t_hG-KZFKfdeyEDeKKg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I have to agree with Michael; Rich, thanks for using the listserv for
> asking the question and Tom for lurking ;).
>
> This is going to be my 2nd year on the hard and I'm Jonesing to sail, but
> since I'm out of the water I'm trying to do projects...and electrical is
> one of them. Thank you for continuing to provide insight, Tom.
>
> Steve, #64
> On Jun 7, 2014 3:14 PM, "Michael de lisle" <krazymiked at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Tom and Rich, thank you for posting all this great info! I just started
>> having issues with my electrical and this is going to help immensely.
>> On Jun 7, 2014 11:41 AM, "Tom T." <tdtron at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Rich,
>>>
>>> I think you may have already answered your own question about possible
>>> problems with the harness going to the engine control panel. The original
>>> wiring system was dangerous when the boats were new and only get more
>>> dangerous with time. Eventually the harness can fail causing possible dire
>>> consequences.
>>>
>>> Not only are the plugs on the original harness prone to failure but the
>>> long length of wire going from the alternator to the panel and then back to
>>> the batteries causes a voltage drop which greatly reduces the vessel's
>>> ability to recharge the batteries. Owners have been known to pay for
>>> expensive alternator upgrades which only magnify the fire hazard. A new
>>> harness will be like having a larger alternator without the expense and
>>> also without the extra load on the engine. There have been reports of
>>> alternator mount failure with larger alternators adding to the dilemma.
>>>
>>> You do NOT need a whole new engine panel harness. You only need to
>>> bypass the heavy current lead from the alternator to the panel. Use a
>>> heavy inline fuse at both the alternator end and the battery end and use
>>> heavy marine grade wire to make a new alternator lead. Marine grade wire
>>> was not used in the past because it was rare and expensive but marine grade
>>> wire is tinned so it is more corrosion resistant and easier to solder.
>>>
>>> Since you will not be having a large current going to the panel any
>>> longer, you can still use the existing wires if you want to for running a
>>> volt meter which has almost no load so it will not be fire hazard or cause
>>> failure from corrosion arcing at the connectors. It may be a good idea to
>>> make a whole new harness but the main thing is to get the charging circuit
>>> out of that harness in any case. Even if you make a new panel harness, the
>>> charging circuit will no longer be part of it.
>>>
>>> A volt meter is one additional advantage of the harness upgrade.If you
>>> replace the amp meter with a volt meter, make sure it is a marine unit.
>>> The automotive units will look and work good for a short time before they
>>> fail due to the salt corrosion of marine use. As a side note, if a volt
>>> meter does fail, it will not kill the charging circuit like an amp meter
>>> will so by changing to a volt meter you will also increase reliability and
>>> safety there also.
>>>
>>> The difference in the wiring connection of the volt meter as compared to
>>> the amp meter is that the amp meter was a series fed meter going back to
>>> the batteries while the return leg on the volt meter just goes to the panel
>>> ground which is adequate since there is very little current through a volt
>>> meter.
>>>
>>> I wrote a Mainsheet article some years ago detailing the harness upgrade
>>> but I can't remember what year or month. Maybe another member with website
>>> access can direct you to the article if it is archived. In a nutshell,
>>> the main accomplishments of a new harness are:
>>>
>>> 1, Shorter and less resistive charging lead from the alternator to the
>>> batteries for more efficient charging.
>>> 2. Elimination of failure prone harness connectors.
>>> 3. No phantom electrical loses from corrosion in the connectors or amp
>>> meter.
>>> 4. A volt meter installed in the engine panel in place of the original
>>> amp meter. A volt meter will give you better information of your
>>> electrical system. For instance, if you had a battery with a broken and
>>> shorted cell plate, an amp meter would possibly still show a good charge
>>> rate while a volt meter would show you had low voltage caused from a
>>> problem that needed attention. Often an amp meter will give a false sense
>>> of security..
>>>
>>> Good luck,
>>> Tom Troncalli
>>> Former owner of #95 and now in lurker status
>>> 770-356-2223
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6/7/2014 7:38 AM, fleet2001 at aol.com wrote:
>>>
>>> Guys,
>>>
>>> I need some electrical advice. My boat "Merriconeag" hull# 138 has about
>>> a
>>> 2amp drain in the engine compartment. I think I should replace the
>>> trailer type
>>> harness with a bus bar. Also, possibly replacing the ammeter with a volt
>>> meter.
>>> I have to switch the engine battery switch to off when I shut the engine
>>> off or
>>> the battery will drain power. Help.
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Rich Grassia
>>>
>>> fleet2001 at aol.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Listserve mailing listListserve at catalina38.orghttp://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus found in this message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 2014.0.4592 / Virus Database: 3955/7635 - Release Date: 06/06/14
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Listserve mailing list
>>> Listserve at catalina38.org
>>> http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Listserve mailing list
>> Listserve at catalina38.org
>> http://catalina38.org/mailman/listinfo/listserve_catalina38.org
>>
>>
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